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zxro

Transitions between trailers, bumpers, etc

Question

I get a weird flickering issue as CV transitions between bumpers and trailers and such during the sequence. It's as if my monitor is changing video modes, it flashes from black to grey a couple of times before the video plays. Not a huge deal, but I'd prefer solid black transitions. Is there something I'm missing here? I removed all disabled functions from my sequence, so it's not trying to play something that isn't there, and nothing fails to load. Is this as good as it gets?

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Just now, zxro said:

I get a weird flickering issue as CV transitions between bumpers and trailers and such during the sequence. It's as if my monitor is changing video modes, it flashes from black to grey a couple of times before the video plays. Not a huge deal, but I'd prefer solid black transitions. Is there something I'm missing here? I removed all disabled functions from my sequence, so it's not trying to play something that isn't there, and nothing fails to load. Is this as good as it gets?

It's very possible that the Trailers and Video Bumpers are different refresh rates, and that change from one rate to the other is what you're seeing. Look here for the Adjust display refresh rate to match video setting, the Pause during refresh rate change setting, and the Sync playback to display settings. You'll need to tweak these so that they're optimized for your equipment. That can mean turning off Adjust display refresh rate to match video, or setting the Pause during refresh rate change so that your equipment has time to switch.

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1 minute ago, Ragnarok said:

It's very possible that the Trailers and Video Bumpers are different refresh rates, and that change from one rate to the other is what you're seeing. Look here for the Adjust display refresh rate to match video setting, the Pause during refresh rate change setting, and the Sync playback to display settings. You'll need to tweak these so that they're optimized for your equipment. That can mean turning off Adjust display refresh rate to match video, or setting the Pause during refresh rate change so that your equipment has time to switch.

Thanks for the speedy response, I'll check into these settings right now! You rock!!!

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2 minutes ago, zxro said:

Thanks for the speedy response, I'll check into these settings right now! You rock!!!

Happy to help! Let us know how it goes.

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7 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Happy to help! Let us know how it goes.

So adding a pause doesn't solve it, the pause happens after the flickering transition. If I turn off refresh rate changing, I only get one quick flash between files, which is quite an improvement, but not quite perfect. Thanks again for your help.

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1 minute ago, zxro said:

So adding a pause doesn't solve it, the pause happens after the flickering transition. If I turn off refresh rate changing, I only get one quick flash between files, which is quite an improvement, but not quite perfect. Thanks again for your help.

Do you have your files on network or local storage? You could also be seeing the buffering dialog.

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1 minute ago, Ragnarok said:

Do you have your files on network or local storage? You could also be seeing the buffering dialog.

Its a local folder, all the files are very small in size as they are SD.

1 minute ago, Ragnarok said:

Do you have your files on network or local storage? You could also be seeing the buffering dialog.

Its a local folder, all the files are very small in size as they are SD.

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Just now, zxro said:

Its a local folder, all the files are very small in size as they are SD.

Chances are it's something to do with the refresh rates then. Are you on a projector or a TV? We use dummy files between videos to give us bookmarks to jump to. We're actively working to change that methodology so we remove some of the refresh rate changes.

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3 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Chances are it's something to do with the refresh rates then. Are you on a projector or a TV? We use dummy files between videos to give us bookmarks to jump to. We're actively working to change that methodology so we remove some of the refresh rate changes.

I've tried it on an HP monitor and my Samsung hdtv. The result appears to be the same. It's livable if I turn off the refresh rate changing, tho I don't know how that affects actual playback.

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52 minutes ago, zxro said:

I've tried it on an HP monitor and my Samsung hdtv. The result appears to be the same. It's livable if I turn off the refresh rate changing, tho I don't know how that affects actual playback.

So with Adjust display refresh rate to match video set to off, you might notice some jitter between videos with different refresh rates. If you don't, I'd say leave it that way. We haven't seen too many issues with TVs and monitors. I'll see what kinda testing I can do to reproduce the issue though.

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On 1/7/2016 at 7:26 PM, MidnightWatcher said:

zxro, give this possible solution a try and let us know if it helps. It basically turns off refresh rate matching at the very beginning of the CV sequence and then enables it immediately prior to the feature.

I'll try this on my day off and report back with the results. Quick dumb question tho, where is the cinemavision folder? I'm looking but I can't find it. :(

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47 minutes ago, zxro said:

I'll try this on my day off and report back with the results. Quick dumb question tho, where is the cinemavision folder? I'm looking but I can't find it. :(

It's whatever directory you set as the Content path in your CinemaVision add-on settings. :)

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On ‎6‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 5:36 AM, Ragnarok said:

Chances are it's something to do with the refresh rates then. Are you on a projector or a TV? We use dummy files between videos to give us bookmarks to jump to. We're actively working to change that methodology so we remove some of the refresh rate changes.

I am having this issue with my JVC projector which takes about 10-12 seconds to resync on refresh rate changes.  I use the DSplayer Kodi wth MadVR and I have set MadVR to change refresh rates to match the video as this eliminates judder etc.  To avoid the refresh rate changes I have ensured that all my Theatre intro's and Trailers etc. are the same resolution and refresh rate @ 23.976 but for some reason (which I think may be related to the quote above) the transition between the sections ie. Theatre intro's - Trailers - Feature causes the projector to have to resync and I end up with a black screen between each one of about 10-12 seconds.  This is extremely annoying and basically makes CinemaVision unusable :( Can you please fix this issue as a matter of urgency?  I realise that if there are different refresh rates for different videos that the projector or display device will have to resync but if all the videos are the same refresh rate and resolution between each part then surely it can be done without the display losing signal/resyncing?

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1 hour ago, MidnightWatcher said:

Hi @Justifier, check out this thread. I think this will fix the issue you're having:

 

Hi, thanks for your response. I have read this topic before (after searching) and no unfortunately this is not a solution for me.  Firstly I use MadVR which has its own refresh rate changing separate from Kodi, secondly defaulting to a refresh rate for the intro's and trailers etc. introduces judder if the refresh rate differs, and finally, even if all my intro's and trailers etc are 23.976 which then match 99% of my movies and my HTPC refresh rate to avoid refresh rate changes CinemaVision still causes the display to resync due to dummy video files etc. used within the coding.  :( 

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Ok I have some great news for a lot of people but it's still not perfect :(  Last night I found the dummy files I think Ragnarok was referring to and I re-encoded them to 1080p files at 23.976 (Handbrake) but kept the same format ie. 2 were mpeg and 1 was mp4.  I also kept the identical names and replaced these files.  I then also re-encoded all of my theatre intro files and trailer intro files etc. and such that all my files within CinemaVision content are 1080p 23.976.  The great news is this has successfully eliminate by JVC projector from resyning between every section!!!  SO for anyone having this refresh rate change resyncing/handshake issue if you do the above I am confident it will fix your problems.  Obviously this only really works well if you download and store the trailers you want in 1080p 23.976 which for me is what I am after anyway.  I simply point the CinemaVision to the directory I have stored the trailers in. Also 99% of my movies are 1080p 23.976 so this makes everything  1080p 23.976 which works really well.

Unfortunately it is still not perfect :( There is still alternating flashing black and grey screens between sections that lasts a about 2 - 5 seconds - sometimes there are 2-4 flashes of grey and black sometimes more sometimes less.  I think there is something else trying to display that is not 1080p and I am guessing some picture files or something.  I am really hoping Ragnarok can figure out what is causing the flashing grey and black screens between sections as it does not relate to refresh rate changes as otherwise my JVC projector would be resyncing and losing the picture for 10-12 seconds which it is no longer doing.

I really hope that my solution helps a lot of people to stop refresh rate changes and if we can fix the flashing black and grey screens between items then it should be pretty close to perfect! 

Edited by Justifier
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Ok so talking to myself a bit here but hopefully my investigations will help some people when they search for this problem....  I have tried many things over the weekend to see if I can eliminate the grey/black flashing between items in the cinemavision sequences.  I am happy to say I have found the culprit.  Note that this does not relate to refresh rate changes as I mentioned a fix for that above which works perfectly! This relates to MadVR and using the "exclusive full screen" option in teh DSplayer options to get DirectX11 and 10-bit output from DSplayer within the DSplayer Kodi Version.  I have found that if I deselect "exclusive full screen use" in the options in DSplayer that I can fully eliminate the black/grey screen flashing between segments.  The problem here is that then it defaults to 8-bit window mode when playing videos so I lose my 10-bit output.  I am not sure if this is effecting the output quality at all and my initial testing would suggest that it is not as the bluray files I am playing are obviously all 8-bit but whether the process of MadVR converting everything from 16-235 8-bit to RGB 0-255 10-bit and back to 8-bit causes any issues or degradation in quality I am not sure.  I have done some dithering and banding tests and I can not see any differences between the two modes.  I also note that trying to set full screen mode instead of fake window mode in the other settings section of Kodi itself unfortunately results in kodi intermittently crashing back to the desktop.  So the only way, at this stage, for me to get rid of the black/grey flashing screens is to deselect the exclusive full screen mode in DSplayer such that it defaults to a 8-bit mode with MadVR when playing files.  Hopefully this helps some people.  If anyone can find a solution which stops the flashing and enables DirectX11 10-bit mode please let me know. Cheers

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8 hours ago, Justifier said:

Ok so talking to myself a bit here but hopefully my investigations will help some people when they search for this problem....  I have tried many things over the weekend to see if I can eliminate the grey/black flashing between items in the cinemavision sequences.  I am happy to say I have found the culprit.  Note that this does not relate to refresh rate changes as I mentioned a fix for that above which works perfectly! This relates to MadVR and using the "exclusive full screen" option in teh DSplayer options to get DirectX11 and 10-bit output from DSplayer within the DSplayer Kodi Version.  I have found that if I deselect "exclusive full screen use" in the options in DSplayer that I can fully eliminate the black/grey screen flashing between segments.  The problem here is that then it defaults to 8-bit window mode when playing videos so I lose my 10-bit output.  I am not sure if this is effecting the output quality at all and my initial testing would suggest that it is not as the bluray files I am playing are obviously all 8-bit but whether the process of MadVR converting everything from 16-235 8-bit to RGB 0-255 10-bit and back to 8-bit causes any issues or degradation in quality I am not sure.  I have done some dithering and banding tests and I can not see any differences between the two modes.  I also note that trying to set full screen mode instead of fake window mode in the other settings section of Kodi itself unfortunately results in kodi intermittently crashing back to the desktop.  So the only way, at this stage, for me to get rid of the black/grey flashing screens is to deselect the exclusive full screen mode in DSplayer such that it defaults to a 8-bit mode with MadVR when playing files.  Hopefully this helps some people.  If anyone can find a solution which stops the flashing and enables DirectX11 10-bit mode please let me know. Cheers

This kind of troubleshooting is exactly what we need, and I can't thank you enough! I'll reach out to the folks behind DSplayer and see what we can work out. They modified it to work with CinemaVision in the past, so maybe it's just an issue of tweaking something.

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13 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

This kind of troubleshooting is exactly what we need, and I can't thank you enough! I'll reach out to the folks behind DSplayer and see what we can work out. They modified it to work with CinemaVision in the past, so maybe it's just an issue of tweaking something.

Ragnarok, thinking out loud, is it be possible to do something similar to turning the refresh rate control on and off and back on within the sequence (mentioned in other threads) but rather with the turning on and off of the default player ie. dvdplayer and dsplayer ? That way all the sequence items could play with dvdplayer within kodi and only the main feature play with madvr.  I say this as with dsplayer and madvr I seem to have randomly stoping sequences.  Sometimes they will play through (rarely) and sometimes they will not.  The sequence is regularly stopping at different spots and just giving a black screen with no particular pattern.  I think the issue may be with dsplayer and madvr not playing nice with cinemavision.  The concept of using dvd player for the sequences and dsplayer just for the main feature may also allow me to use the exclusive mode for madvr such that I get 10-bit output.  Any thoughts? Cheers.

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Looks like another option may be using DVDPlayer merits within Kodi DSplayer version to tell Kodi to use DVDPlayer for MP4, Mov and MPEG files such that DVDPlayer should play all the CinemaVision items and only use DSplayer for my MKV movie files.  Will give it a shot tonight and see how I go.....

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19 hours ago, Justifier said:

Looks like another option may be using DVDPlayer merits within Kodi DSplayer version to tell Kodi to use DVDPlayer for MP4, Mov and MPEG files such that DVDPlayer should play all the CinemaVision items and only use DSplayer for my MKV movie files.  Will give it a shot tonight and see how I go.....

Hey there! As far as I'm aware, there's no way to use the default Kodi VideoPlayer and DSPlayer at the same time. From what I've been told, DSPlayer actually replaces VideoPlayer (or DVDPlayer in older versions of Kodi) which effectively removes the default player entirely. That's why instead of being an add-on, it's a full install of Kodi that's been modified and repackaged.

That said, I have some bad news, unfortunately. I reached out to the folks behind DSPlayer, and they're no longer developing for it. Even with their changes to support (in part) CinemaVision, they still have outstanding bugs that affect many video add-ons, including CinemaVision. What you've cited is apparently a known issue, but without a dedicated team actively working on DSPlayer, it likely won't be addressed. When I spoke to aracnoz on the Kodi forum, he said he ported it to support Kodi 17, but that was as far as he was going to go and we shouldn't expect to see any updates in the future unless another developer picks it up.

I'd suggest making the move to the new VideoPlayer (the default for Kodi 17+), which we know is compatible and continues to get new features in every release. It's possible that MadVR filters will be supported in the future, but that's a question for the Kodi team. Hopefully this helps. I'm still going to reach out to our developer to see what he thinks either way.

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21 hours ago, Ragnarok said:

Hey there! As far as I'm aware, there's no way to use the default Kodi VideoPlayer and DSPlayer at the same time. From what I've been told, DSPlayer actually replaces VideoPlayer (or DVDPlayer in older versions of Kodi) which effectively removes the default player entirely. That's why instead of being an add-on, it's a full install of Kodi that's been modified and repackaged.

That said, I have some bad news, unfortunately. I reached out to the folks behind DSPlayer, and they're no longer developing for it. Even with their changes to support (in part) CinemaVision, they still have outstanding bugs that affect many video add-ons, including CinemaVision. What you've cited is apparently a known issue, but without a dedicated team actively working on DSPlayer, it likely won't be addressed. When I spoke to aracnoz on the Kodi forum, he said he ported it to support Kodi 17, but that was as far as he was going to go and we shouldn't expect to see any updates in the future unless another developer picks it up.

I'd suggest making the move to the new VideoPlayer (the default for Kodi 17+), which we know is compatible and continues to get new features in every release. It's possible that MadVR filters will be supported in the future, but that's a question for the Kodi team. Hopefully this helps. I'm still going to reach out to our developer to see what he thinks either way.

Ok well I have some excellent news!  Using the DVDPlayer merits within Kodi DSplayer version I have managed to tell Kodi to use DVDPlayer for MP4, Mov and MPEG files such that DVDPlayer plays all the CinemaVision items and only use DSplayer for my MKV movie files. Yay!!!!!

This means I can use MadVR with just my main feature MKV movie and I get full DirectX11 10-bit output and 4k upscaling with NGU.  Good times!  Also by using DVDPlayer for all my CinemaVision items including the .mov trailers I can use the settings within Kodi's menu system relating to DVDPlayer to stop refresh rate changes for different frame rates in trailers but the MKV movie files adhere to madVR settings which changes the refresh rate if necessary but only when the MKV movie files plays.  99.9% of my movies are all 23.976 so this I don't really have any refresh rate changes at all!

So the great news is that the DSplayer Kodi version 17.1 does still have DVDPlayer within its system that can be used by using DVDPlayer Merit options in the menu system.  I am extremely happy to say that this appears to be working perfectly!  I guess if 18+ versions don't support cinemavision then I will not be changing until such time that it does.  So I am very confident that my research/testing/trials and tribulations should allow many users of cinemavision to successfully use the DSplayer version of Kodi with madVR DirectX11 10-bit output for their MKV movie files and DVDPlayer for the cinemavision files and the trailers.

It is important to note that I still think it is necessary to re-code the dummy files to 1080p 23.976 to stop a refresh rate change when starting the movie but I haven't tested that yet.  It is also worth re-coding the cinemavision files to 1080p 23.976 to reduce judder in the sequences as I have my desktop set to 23.976.  Finally I was using a directory with trailers all in 23.976 but now use kodiDB and apple trailers to play a few trailers and whilst most are 23.796 some are 25 or 29.97 etc which can cause a little judder for the non 23.976 files as I have set DVDplayer to not change refresh rates with my projector as otherwise I lose signal for 10-12 seconds.

I hope this helps lots of people :)

Edited by Justifier
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8 hours ago, Justifier said:

Ok well I have some excellent news!  Using the DVDPlayer merits within Kodi DSplayer version I have managed to tell Kodi to use DVDPlayer for MP4, Mov and MPEG files such that DVDPlayer plays all the CinemaVision items and only use DSplayer for my MKV movie files. Yay!!!!!

This means I can use MadVR with just my main feature MKV movie and I get full DirectX11 10-bit output and 4k upscaling with NGU.  Good times!  Also by using DSplayer for all my CinemaVision items including the .mov trailers I can use the settings within Kodi's menu system relating to DVDPlayer to stop refresh rate changes for different frame rates in trailers but the MKV movie files adhere to madVR settings which changes the refresh rate if necessary but only when the MKV movie files plays.  99.9% of my movies are all 23.976 so this I don't really have any refresh rate changes at all!

So the great news is that the DSplayer Kodi version 17.1 does still have DVDPlayer within its system that can be used by using DVDPlayer Merit options in the menu system.  I am extremely happy to say that this appears to be working perfectly!  I guess if 18+ versions don't support cinemavision then I will not be changing until such time that it does.  So I am very confident that my research/testing/trials and tribulations should allow many users of cinemavision to successfully use the DSplayer version of Kodi with madVR DirectX11 10-bit output for their MKV movie files and DVDPlayer for the cinemavision files and the trailers.

It is important to note that I still think it is necessary to re-code the dummy files to 1080p 23.976 to stop a refresh rate change when starting the movie but I haven't tested that yet.  It is also worth re-coding the cinemavision files to 1080p 23.976 to reduce judder in the sequences as I have my desktop set to 23.976.  Finally I was using a directory with trailers all in 23.976 but now use kodiDB and apple trailers to play a few trailers and whilst most are 23.796 some are 25 or 29.97 etc which can cause a little judder for the non 23.976 files as I have set DVDplayer to not change refresh rates with my projector as otherwise I lose signal for 10-12 seconds.

I hope this helps lots of people :)

That's amazing news, actually. I didn't know that was possible. Would you be open to writing a step-by-step guide? I'm sure DSPlayer users would absolutely love that. Fantastic work!

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On 25/04/2017 at 5:16 AM, Justifier said:

Ok well I have some excellent news!  Using the DVDPlayer merits within Kodi DSplayer version I have managed to tell Kodi to use DVDPlayer for MP4, Mov and MPEG files such that DVDPlayer plays all the CinemaVision items and only use DSplayer for my MKV movie files. Yay!!!!!

This means I can use MadVR with just my main feature MKV movie and I get full DirectX11 10-bit output and 4k upscaling with NGU.  Good times!  Also by using DVDPlayer for all my CinemaVision items including the .mov trailers I can use the settings within Kodi's menu system relating to DVDPlayer to stop refresh rate changes for different frame rates in trailers but the MKV movie files adhere to madVR settings which changes the refresh rate if necessary but only when the MKV movie files plays.  99.9% of my movies are all 23.976 so this I don't really have any refresh rate changes at all!

So the great news is that the DSplayer Kodi version 17.1 does still have DVDPlayer within its system that can be used by using DVDPlayer Merit options in the menu system.  I am extremely happy to say that this appears to be working perfectly!  I guess if 18+ versions don't support cinemavision then I will not be changing until such time that it does.  So I am very confident that my research/testing/trials and tribulations should allow many users of cinemavision to successfully use the DSplayer version of Kodi with madVR DirectX11 10-bit output for their MKV movie files and DVDPlayer for the cinemavision files and the trailers.

It is important to note that I still think it is necessary to re-code the dummy files to 1080p 23.976 to stop a refresh rate change when starting the movie but I haven't tested that yet.  It is also worth re-coding the cinemavision files to 1080p 23.976 to reduce judder in the sequences as I have my desktop set to 23.976.  Finally I was using a directory with trailers all in 23.976 but now use kodiDB and apple trailers to play a few trailers and whilst most are 23.796 some are 25 or 29.97 etc which can cause a little judder for the non 23.976 files as I have set DVDplayer to not change refresh rates with my projector as otherwise I lose signal for 10-12 seconds.

I hope this helps lots of people :)

Hey Justifier,

Just wanted to thank you for your work troubleshooting the issue of Cinemavision/DSPlayer compatibility. Coming across your posts did indeed save me a huge amount of time getting things working.

I'm not sure if you still visit these boards but I have a question for you if that's cool?

I've configured things pretty close to the way you did, in as much as I use filter merits to handle all streaming material (apple trailers) as well as mpegs, movs and MP4s and I also re-encoded the three Cinemavision dummy files, however I only changed their frame rate to 23.976 and left their resolutions as is as to the best of my knowledge that shouldn't affect refresh rate.

I was wondering if you are using any bumpers or files other than trailers? Despite my trailers now playing cleanly, my audio bumpers and film classifications are erratic at best and sometimes cause the feature to not play at all :(

 

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We're experimenting with using GIFs as dummy files instead of full-on video files, and it looks promising. If we get that working, it should eliminate the need for anything to be re-encoded, which will hopefully work for you guys. Would anyone be willing to test that once we get it working?

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About Us

CinemaVision began in 2014 as a collaboration to create content for use with your home theater, offering movie trivia slides and video bumpers. It has since grown to be THE PREMIER WAY to create and customize your preshow experience. Download the CinemaVision add-on for Kodi today from the official Kodi repository, and easily create a sequence of trivia, videos, trailers, home automation triggers and more that will bring the experience of a movie theater straight to your screen!

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